1 00:00:14,209 --> 00:00:11,499 alright um we are recording this so 2 00:00:17,060 --> 00:00:14,219 ladies gentlemen welcome to the next in 3 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:17,070 our series of webinars just a few have 4 00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:20,250 been details to deal with the slides for 5 00:00:26,660 --> 00:00:23,760 today's webinar are up on the website 6 00:00:30,109 --> 00:00:26,670 with the exception of one set from Eric 7 00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:30,119 which will be up in just a moment the 8 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:33,840 video from yesterday's webinar is now 9 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:36,809 linked to the event from yesterday so we 10 00:00:42,290 --> 00:00:40,500 are completely up to date on that and as 11 00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:42,300 a final reminder for anyone who hasn't 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:44,760 attended one of these events before this 13 00:00:50,389 --> 00:00:47,250 is being recorded so both the text and 14 00:00:53,150 --> 00:00:50,399 anything that you say when we open up 15 00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:53,160 the phone lines will be publicly 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:00:56,460 available the document that this webinar 17 00:01:02,450 --> 00:00:59,850 relates to is available via the front on 18 00:01:05,469 --> 00:01:02,460 the astrobiology website and in fact it 19 00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:05,479 has been flipped open so you can now add 20 00:01:10,340 --> 00:01:08,159 comments to it we're going to encourage 21 00:01:13,399 --> 00:01:10,350 you to add your comments into the text 22 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:13,409 boxes as bob has been doing and also 23 00:01:17,090 --> 00:01:15,360 once the presentation is finished we'll 24 00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:17,100 open up the phone lines so we'd be 25 00:01:24,260 --> 00:01:19,560 delighted to hear from you as well with 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:24,270 that Frank thank you very much thank you 27 00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:29,610 Andy and welcome Ali welcome Bob welcome 28 00:01:38,260 --> 00:01:33,600 Melissa so as you guys know this is the 29 00:01:42,740 --> 00:01:38,270 next in a series of webinars that are 30 00:01:48,609 --> 00:01:42,750 based on the activity that focus groups 31 00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:48,619 that were joined together last June 32 00:01:58,609 --> 00:01:53,640 astrobiology a roadmap meeting and so 33 00:02:01,459 --> 00:01:58,619 today's webinar is there's a google 34 00:02:04,609 --> 00:02:01,469 documents that is I believe available 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:04,619 now which poses the question what is the 36 00:02:12,710 --> 00:02:10,770 simplest life look like and all exactly 37 00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:12,720 makes us work there so the authors of 38 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:13,200 the 39 00:02:25,220 --> 00:02:18,480 with acaba irene chen paul falkowski gym 40 00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:25,230 Lions mix myself to the Burkhardt 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:28,590 Phoenix fault agasshi rage Springsteen 42 00:02:37,790 --> 00:02:33,530 sub will and Lawrence Williams and Eric 43 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:37,800 Miller will accuse me of Eric Smith will 44 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:41,930 be talking to us after I'm finished here 45 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:46,500 so the sort of the sub question to this 46 00:02:50,630 --> 00:02:48,450 or the principles that question is you 47 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:50,640 know what can synthetic and reductive 48 00:02:57,229 --> 00:02:54,090 approaches tell us about early for life 49 00:03:01,309 --> 00:02:57,239 and I'll say up front is something of a 50 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:01,319 disclaimer that my own specialty is that 51 00:03:09,339 --> 00:03:05,690 of experimental population genetics and 52 00:03:13,309 --> 00:03:09,349 also interested in the origins of 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:13,319 organelles and multicellularity so I'm a 54 00:03:20,690 --> 00:03:17,810 little bit further removed from these 55 00:03:22,789 --> 00:03:20,700 central questions concerning this origin 56 00:03:26,539 --> 00:03:22,799 of life although I consider myself a 57 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:26,549 real amateur of his work okay so what 58 00:03:33,020 --> 00:03:28,940 does the simplest life look like we're 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:33,030 in our bio 100 classroom I throw up some 60 00:03:39,650 --> 00:03:35,130 slides like this where we have you know 61 00:03:42,650 --> 00:03:39,660 a molecule like a ribozyme group of he's 62 00:03:47,860 --> 00:03:42,660 a beautiful crayons or a bacteriophage 63 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:47,870 and then number four on the right is the 64 00:03:58,129 --> 00:03:53,690 smallest of known bacterium 65 00:04:01,360 --> 00:03:58,139 mycobacterium genitalium has smallest 66 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:01,370 bacterium of a more or less free living 67 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:03,480 bacterium although there are others that 68 00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:06,690 are intracellular sending-off been 69 00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:08,190 discovered in the last few years that 70 00:04:18,589 --> 00:04:13,620 had even smaller Gina so so but is it's 71 00:04:21,589 --> 00:04:18,599 really what this is all about this may 72 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:21,599 not actually none of these may represent 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:24,690 what the simplest life on other worlds 74 00:04:29,119 --> 00:04:26,610 they look like certainly may 75 00:04:32,089 --> 00:04:29,129 not even be the senseless life that we 76 00:04:34,939 --> 00:04:32,099 would have recognized as such had we've 77 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:34,949 been able or were we able to get into 78 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:38,310 its time-traveling machine and go back 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:43,169 four billion years so we do know and 80 00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:46,530 many of the people participating today 81 00:04:57,490 --> 00:04:50,340 may have seen this paper that just came 82 00:05:00,890 --> 00:04:57,500 out in astrobiology last month where the 83 00:05:07,189 --> 00:05:00,900 publication of this paper vine aki and 84 00:05:10,689 --> 00:05:07,199 hazen and others indicated that there 85 00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:10,699 were clear evidence of bacterial mats 86 00:05:20,209 --> 00:05:13,680 going back three and a half billion 87 00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:20,219 years but as i have an image 6 below so 88 00:05:24,769 --> 00:05:22,560 all the things that we found that could 89 00:05:27,769 --> 00:05:24,779 be construed as being alive or certainly 90 00:05:32,450 --> 00:05:27,779 not likely to be the simplest so for 91 00:05:36,110 --> 00:05:32,460 example here is a picture of a microbial 92 00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:36,120 map in the Civil is it March marsh near 93 00:05:45,769 --> 00:05:40,440 Woods Hole and the purple sulfur 94 00:05:49,159 --> 00:05:45,779 bacteria that set our partners in making 95 00:05:52,909 --> 00:05:49,169 this map an example of those are to the 96 00:05:57,499 --> 00:05:52,919 for the rice from a shim clearly these 97 00:05:59,990 --> 00:05:57,509 organisms are fully formed selves with 98 00:06:02,029 --> 00:06:00,000 their own hereditary has apparatus and 99 00:06:04,909 --> 00:06:02,039 means of harvesting energies for the 100 00:06:07,579 --> 00:06:04,919 environment and so these we're really 101 00:06:10,179 --> 00:06:07,589 wanting to push the questions back much 102 00:06:15,499 --> 00:06:10,189 further than that three and a half 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:15,509 billion year time window so as is the 104 00:06:19,790 --> 00:06:17,490 convention with the development of these 105 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:19,800 google documents there's a question 106 00:06:23,869 --> 00:06:21,680 there's the explanation and 107 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:23,879 justification and did a series of so 108 00:06:27,890 --> 00:06:26,310 question so the explanation or we want 109 00:06:31,189 --> 00:06:27,900 to know what are the key events that 110 00:06:35,350 --> 00:06:31,199 went into the formation and early 111 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:35,360 evolution of life and what features were 112 00:06:40,559 --> 00:06:37,740 exchanged at the time is the first 113 00:06:43,739 --> 00:06:40,569 replicating cell or protocells and 114 00:06:49,260 --> 00:06:43,749 existence and so there on the left it as 115 00:06:53,159 --> 00:06:49,270 an example from Jack's tow sacks website 116 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:53,169 and also says that's involved by for 117 00:07:02,659 --> 00:06:57,610 presentation as in falses example of a 118 00:07:05,999 --> 00:07:02,669 protocell an enclosed of lipids 119 00:07:09,869 --> 00:07:06,009 structure with some nucleic acid inside 120 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:09,879 and we also want to know is there 121 00:07:14,909 --> 00:07:12,089 minimal set of vital requirements 122 00:07:19,079 --> 00:07:14,919 including you know genetics of 123 00:07:21,649 --> 00:07:19,089 self-replication translation if proteins 124 00:07:26,309 --> 00:07:21,659 are involved compartmentalization 125 00:07:31,619 --> 00:07:26,319 metabolism so we would like to know in 126 00:07:35,159 --> 00:07:31,629 that great leaf from from my cells and 127 00:07:38,570 --> 00:07:35,169 vesicles and ribozymes to what we would 128 00:07:43,290 --> 00:07:38,580 recognize as it excel you know what what 129 00:07:45,809 --> 00:07:43,300 what if what of these features any 130 00:07:53,189 --> 00:07:45,819 subset or all of them are necessary for 131 00:07:56,059 --> 00:07:53,199 us to call us alive so um we also and 132 00:07:59,939 --> 00:07:56,069 then one of the participants has been 133 00:08:01,949 --> 00:07:59,949 pinging us about this that's how to the 134 00:08:07,799 --> 00:08:01,959 essential traits of life arise from the 135 00:08:12,239 --> 00:08:07,809 Jew chemical environment as Jim pointed 136 00:08:14,249 --> 00:08:12,249 out almost in a kind of Greek way back 137 00:08:18,689 --> 00:08:14,259 in the back in the beginning if there 138 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:18,699 was really just you know whitewater rock 139 00:08:24,379 --> 00:08:21,490 heaps to work with so how do these 140 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:24,389 essential trades of life arise from this 141 00:08:31,230 --> 00:08:28,110 geochemistry and what factors do we 142 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:31,240 consider essential for generating the 143 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:35,289 first recognizable soothing system so 144 00:08:45,809 --> 00:08:41,610 the group was very interested in pushing 145 00:08:50,269 --> 00:08:45,819 in the next roadmap the idea that we can 146 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:50,279 approach these enormous questions 147 00:08:57,180 --> 00:08:54,370 experimentally and these experiments 148 00:09:02,250 --> 00:08:57,190 could be wet lab experiments or they 149 00:09:06,170 --> 00:09:02,260 could be in silico experiments they the 150 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:06,180 the groups all that there was a 151 00:09:12,269 --> 00:09:08,620 potentially a clear path to doing that 152 00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:12,279 I'd like to articulated as I understand 153 00:09:17,130 --> 00:09:15,550 with consent to swab so these 154 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:17,140 experiments could be based on 155 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:22,240 simplifying X have cells so everybody 156 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:25,450 watching I'm sure is familiar with the 157 00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:27,370 work that was published by Craig Venters 158 00:09:36,290 --> 00:09:31,480 group not long ago about of creating 159 00:09:41,250 --> 00:09:36,300 from us new from human synthesized DNA 160 00:09:44,430 --> 00:09:41,260 chumps a functional microbial cells this 161 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:44,440 is a papers that's now about five years 162 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:46,890 old that was published in science and 163 00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:50,560 more recently of people in George 164 00:10:01,880 --> 00:09:54,160 church's labs have taken this further 165 00:10:07,460 --> 00:10:04,260 computation of the understanding of what 166 00:10:10,970 --> 00:10:07,470 a minimal cell like Venters 167 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:10,980 mycobacterium might look like and then 168 00:10:20,460 --> 00:10:16,990 others have taken kind of a bottom-up 169 00:10:23,930 --> 00:10:20,470 approach notably researchers and Jack 170 00:10:26,930 --> 00:10:23,940 szostak slabs of trying to take 171 00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:26,940 replicating entities and 172 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:29,910 self-replicating vesicles and creating 173 00:10:39,150 --> 00:10:34,420 protocells so one task is to try to 174 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:39,160 simplify X 10 cells to basically strip 175 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:41,230 them down to their absolute minimum and 176 00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:43,630 see what they look like and how easily 177 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:46,900 or how difficult it is to model the 178 00:10:53,730 --> 00:10:51,450 behavior and the other is say the 179 00:10:57,860 --> 00:10:53,740 constituents of frota cells and try to 180 00:11:02,070 --> 00:10:57,870 fill them up from the bottom so these 181 00:11:04,590 --> 00:11:02,080 computational models that could come 182 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:04,600 from approaches like that of church and 183 00:11:07,510 --> 00:11:06,010 some others that i'll show you in the 184 00:11:11,830 --> 00:11:07,520 next slide I 185 00:11:14,770 --> 00:11:11,840 deity these computational models should 186 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:14,780 generate hypotheses that can be tested 187 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:20,330 in the laboratory and it is i think a 188 00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:23,450 dominant theme of the conversations in 189 00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:27,080 our group was that there should be an 190 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:29,990 interplay between theory and experiment 191 00:11:36,970 --> 00:11:32,930 is trying to gain greater understanding 192 00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:36,980 of these initials fits in leading to the 193 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:41,600 formation of life so perhaps an 194 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:44,210 interesting paper that people might look 195 00:11:50,650 --> 00:11:48,050 at along these lines is the paper 196 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:50,660 published last year in cell by curt it 197 00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:54,220 out where they took mycobacterium 198 00:12:01,300 --> 00:11:59,360 genitalium its smallest free-living I 199 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:01,310 think he's free living because it's a 200 00:12:08,830 --> 00:12:03,830 parasitic bacteria but at least it's not 201 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:08,840 an intracellular parasites like some of 202 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:11,510 those interesting organisms living in 203 00:12:16,450 --> 00:12:13,610 insect deaths is fried by John 204 00:12:20,590 --> 00:12:16,460 McCutcheon recently and Nancy Moran's 205 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:20,600 his hosts awful advisor anyway the 206 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:23,720 current out of paper actually does some 207 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:27,260 brilliant modeling and the objective of 208 00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:31,040 this paper and related papers that have 209 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:34,900 amounts from this group is to simulate 210 00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:37,370 something which what we think of as 211 00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:43,190 being quite simple namely see what 212 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:45,590 Jacques Monod called the dream of every 213 00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:48,770 cell which is to come to self so they're 214 00:12:59,620 --> 00:12:52,870 modeling cell division and taking these 215 00:13:03,820 --> 00:12:59,630 various of input of parameters 216 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:03,830 chromosome transcript RNA geometry of 217 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:07,190 the cell etc and synthy cell variables 218 00:13:16,590 --> 00:13:11,450 to these cell prophecies as submodels 219 00:13:19,980 --> 00:13:16,600 and then iteratively tried to come to a 220 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:19,990 model-based understanding of the 221 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:21,110 bacterial 222 00:13:27,819 --> 00:13:25,010 a process of producing to sell so I 223 00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:27,829 found this interesting quote it right 224 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:31,790 now running a simulation for a single 225 00:13:36,819 --> 00:13:34,730 cell to divide only one time takes about 226 00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:36,829 ten hours and generates half a gigabyte 227 00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:41,600 of data covert Souls the New York Times 228 00:13:47,319 --> 00:13:45,470 the lead author at Stanford i find it 229 00:13:49,389 --> 00:13:47,329 fat completely fascinating because i 230 00:13:51,810 --> 00:13:49,399 don't know that anyone has ever asked 231 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:51,820 how much data a living thing truly folks 232 00:13:59,050 --> 00:13:56,110 i would add to that remark that that 233 00:14:03,220 --> 00:13:59,060 that data that he's talking about their 234 00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:03,230 relates to see the cell cycles and 235 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:06,260 presumably not just the variables within 236 00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:08,510 the cell but also the stimuli that are 237 00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:11,360 external to the cell and there's a lot 238 00:14:18,569 --> 00:14:14,420 more to cells and simply dividing and in 239 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:18,579 fact as most environmental ma cripes 240 00:14:24,250 --> 00:14:20,660 microbiologists knows perhaps the 241 00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:24,260 overwhelming majority of species on this 242 00:14:29,319 --> 00:14:26,870 planet spend their time in some form of 243 00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:29,329 suspended animation switcher force has 244 00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:32,300 its own programs that would need to be 245 00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:35,769 modeled as well as the exits from that 246 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:41,680 from that space alright so those are the 247 00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:44,110 explanations so what about justification 248 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:48,380 well astrobiology operates with implicit 249 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:52,250 and as time goes on for more explicit 250 00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:56,570 models for fly and our focus in this 251 00:15:02,009 --> 00:14:59,600 roof kept trying either by bottom-up or 252 00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:02,019 top-down methods to come up with a 253 00:15:10,329 --> 00:15:07,279 functioning protocell so this is what we 254 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:10,339 felt with the introduc t'avais of trying 255 00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:13,130 to get FC at these ultimate questions 256 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:17,000 about life's origins and so the idea is 257 00:15:24,730 --> 00:15:20,769 that there's a lot of information that 258 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:24,740 is that that the top down approach 259 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:29,440 actually starts with off with phylogeny 260 00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:34,550 represented by this recess nature paper 261 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:39,560 if I gooey and should he shows he dumb 262 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:42,810 and then on the bottom synthetic biology 263 00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:45,240 which is represented in the bottom panel 264 00:15:53,989 --> 00:15:50,310 on the left where an approach of trying 265 00:15:57,980 --> 00:15:53,999 to put together the components that form 266 00:16:00,650 --> 00:15:57,990 a cell is the object of study set a 267 00:16:04,299 --> 00:16:00,660 protocell basically lies it in 268 00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:04,309 intersection of these activities of 269 00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,779 phylogenetic analysis which is really 270 00:16:13,579 --> 00:16:09,360 famously taking all of life diversity 271 00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:13,589 and trying to not just organize it but 272 00:16:23,139 --> 00:16:18,990 to generate testable hypotheses as to 273 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:23,149 the relationship and the history of 274 00:16:30,889 --> 00:16:26,850 relationships among these texts ampsuit 275 00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:30,899 beings with and we share the planet okay 276 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:35,100 so knowing this model and here I'm not 277 00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:37,970 talking about a model in terms of 278 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:41,430 computational models such as that 279 00:16:48,619 --> 00:16:44,490 described by car now but rather the 280 00:16:50,780 --> 00:16:48,629 protocells model can suggest experiments 281 00:16:54,549 --> 00:16:50,790 involving alternate south chemistry so 282 00:16:59,600 --> 00:16:54,559 once we get to this the group felt that 283 00:17:02,449 --> 00:16:59,610 and getting this tool would enable a lot 284 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:02,459 of experiments to take place that could 285 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:05,689 themselves be informed by computational 286 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:10,130 analysis alright so that's the 287 00:17:17,779 --> 00:17:14,089 explanation justification as with the 288 00:17:20,270 --> 00:17:17,789 other topics we were asked to identify a 289 00:17:23,899 --> 00:17:20,280 number of sub questions and in the 290 00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:23,909 roadmap perhaps some of these could be 291 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:28,110 sorted out as was in this 2008 roadmap 292 00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:31,740 to suggest particular lines of 293 00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:34,679 investigation so we can ask what 294 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:36,780 evolutionary pressures like you know 295 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:39,780 selection mutation and griff apply to 296 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:42,090 earliest loss what environmental 297 00:17:49,490 --> 00:17:46,330 pressures whether they be 298 00:17:52,409 --> 00:17:49,500 abiotic factors like carbon availability 299 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:52,419 energy sources or biotic factors like a 300 00:17:57,649 --> 00:17:54,010 distribution and abundance of 301 00:18:01,049 --> 00:17:57,659 competitors and predators and parasites 302 00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:01,059 is life a necessary consequence of 303 00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:04,360 certain environmental conditions and a 304 00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:06,940 gem was alluding to this and some of his 305 00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:09,840 remarks before the webinar got underway 306 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:13,240 as well as what is a minimal energetic 307 00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:17,860 source and mechanism photo auto trophy 308 00:18:22,830 --> 00:18:20,710 has carried out by plants and even by 309 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:22,840 sign of bacteria is a wonderfully 310 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:25,510 complex mechanism for what are this were 311 00:18:31,580 --> 00:18:27,940 the simplest chemistry's by which cells 312 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:31,590 and extract or protocells that extract 313 00:18:40,289 --> 00:18:37,289 energy for carrying out replication and 314 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:40,299 self-assembly growing from the 315 00:18:46,529 --> 00:18:42,850 environment how to kill a skinny as 316 00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,539 Moses emerged how did the elhas of 317 00:18:52,649 --> 00:18:49,120 friend life arrive and how do they 318 00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:52,659 operate in their simplest forms so the 319 00:18:59,370 --> 00:18:56,470 lipid bilayer that surround cells is 320 00:19:01,889 --> 00:18:59,380 also very complicated structure you know 321 00:19:06,659 --> 00:19:01,899 what did the simplest with if I layer 322 00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:06,669 around the proto cells of life what are 323 00:19:12,570 --> 00:19:09,460 the what did the simplest of metabolic 324 00:19:17,269 --> 00:19:12,580 networks the minimal networks required 325 00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:17,279 for harvesting energy and harvesting of 326 00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:21,539 carbon and micro nutrients from the 327 00:19:28,889 --> 00:19:26,380 environments other sub questions is it 328 00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,899 implicit in the previous slide is what 329 00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:31,600 is file genetics analysis felt about the 330 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:34,630 oldest forms of life and the most common 331 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:38,529 genetic components in synthetic biology 332 00:19:46,769 --> 00:19:42,630 we use to construct a simple life form 333 00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:46,779 from Adams up or do we need to start 334 00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:49,679 with components of living cells a 335 00:19:56,539 --> 00:19:52,870 question here are endosymbiotic good 336 00:20:00,090 --> 00:19:56,549 model for earliest cellular life and so 337 00:20:02,130 --> 00:20:00,100 the mycobacterium model which is 338 00:20:05,340 --> 00:20:02,140 been used to explore the concept of the 339 00:20:08,130 --> 00:20:05,350 minimal genome is in fact it is not an 340 00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:08,140 intracellular but rather an intra 341 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:12,390 organismal of parasites and in fact 342 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:15,850 organisms benefit discovered it's only 343 00:20:19,860 --> 00:20:17,530 in the last couple of years that have 344 00:20:22,650 --> 00:20:19,870 these and smaller genomes Gino's on the 345 00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:22,660 order is smaller than viruses and on the 346 00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:28,240 order of similar classes these symbiotic 347 00:20:34,409 --> 00:20:32,230 organisms can only carry out their 348 00:20:36,539 --> 00:20:34,419 functions by virtue of metabolic 349 00:20:39,149 --> 00:20:36,549 interactions with other such organisms 350 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:39,159 or living within a host that provides 351 00:20:45,539 --> 00:20:42,610 many of the necessities for life and so 352 00:20:47,549 --> 00:20:45,549 while I think here's I'm venturing into 353 00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:47,559 the land of opinion here while I think 354 00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:51,480 that these mutualisms and their minimal 355 00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:55,390 genome contents are very interesting we 356 00:21:01,770 --> 00:20:57,130 need to bear in mind that they are 357 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:01,780 derived characters not successful one so 358 00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:04,000 pretend what are the relevant spatial 359 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:06,220 and temporal scales the origin of life 360 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:09,130 number 11 how the conditions for life 361 00:21:16,169 --> 00:21:12,030 origin differ from the conditions for 362 00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:16,179 sustaining life and how can this inform 363 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:18,340 our discussion about what food 364 00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:21,520 constitutes a habitable zone on other 365 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:26,830 world and how might we seek a habitable 366 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:32,260 zone of remotely of using using probes 367 00:21:39,419 --> 00:21:36,490 and then the last five questions in life 368 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:39,429 or metabolism function of structures or 369 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:43,090 information content or energetics what 370 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:45,010 are the simplest structures we think of 371 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:48,130 its having a function or at being alive 372 00:21:54,899 --> 00:21:51,250 and weighted itself it is defined by 373 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:54,909 compartmentalization it is defined as I 374 00:21:59,610 --> 00:21:57,850 suggested and it's what know where it's 375 00:22:05,840 --> 00:21:59,620 because it is not part of the Google 376 00:22:10,049 --> 00:22:05,850 document it is designed by aging which 377 00:22:13,860 --> 00:22:10,059 is really a manifestation of entropy at 378 00:22:17,130 --> 00:22:13,870 work you know in in the living cell 379 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:17,140 and then does it make sense to think of 380 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:19,840 earliest life as hopes just to self the 381 00:22:25,049 --> 00:22:22,030 same chemical systems peoples undergoing 382 00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:25,059 Darwinian evolution or did these first 383 00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:28,180 replicators share genes through lateral 384 00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:30,820 gene transfer and starts Darwinian 385 00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:34,980 evolution with mutations selections with 386 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:39,670 later on and then finally and perhaps 387 00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:41,890 most importantly how does our formation 388 00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:44,740 of the question affects the experiments 389 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:48,420 that we prove suppose booze so the group 390 00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:52,630 felt that phylogeny and synthetic 391 00:22:57,450 --> 00:22:55,030 biology from the top down and from the 392 00:23:00,330 --> 00:22:57,460 bottom up had a lot to contribute to our 393 00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:00,340 understanding of such as sort of cells 394 00:23:08,150 --> 00:23:05,440 and modeling for themselves but but what 395 00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,160 that would tell us about life origins 396 00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:11,200 and so all of these questions that I 397 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:14,580 posed and it's in the name of the group 398 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:19,510 presuppose that the type of life that we 399 00:23:24,419 --> 00:23:22,510 are and the type of life that we have 400 00:23:26,790 --> 00:23:24,429 that we're immersed in here on this 401 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:26,800 planet is in fact the only type of life 402 00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:33,010 that that's possible and so you know our 403 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:36,040 would we with other life-forms be 404 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:38,650 invisible to us because we're stuck on 405 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:41,890 the idea of cellular life you know of 406 00:23:46,610 --> 00:23:43,870 course I'm sure that all of us living 407 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:46,620 here have our favorite science fiction 408 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:49,990 short story or novel where some 409 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:53,080 alternative life form transients our 410 00:23:57,930 --> 00:23:55,330 understanding of failure life my 411 00:24:01,560 --> 00:23:57,940 personal favorites is Bradbury's is 412 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:01,570 desirable if but I'm sure everybody 413 00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:04,050 could come up with your favorite example 414 00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:07,660 and it's with regard to this number 16 415 00:24:13,230 --> 00:24:10,750 of how it sort of brought to mind 416 00:24:15,540 --> 00:24:13,240 Heisenberg's of fixham that what we 417 00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:15,550 observe is not nature itself but rather 418 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:19,720 nature exposed to our methods of 419 00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:23,530 questioning so here are some related 420 00:24:28,409 --> 00:24:25,929 questions i'm not going to do 421 00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:28,419 here we dissolve so that we can move on 422 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:30,460 to our discussion of following Eric's 423 00:24:37,529 --> 00:24:33,369 presentation but this big question what 424 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:37,539 is the simplest slice look like all of 425 00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:39,369 the answers to this question are 426 00:24:44,909 --> 00:24:41,440 ultimately related to the evolution of 427 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:44,919 complexity whether its complexity at the 428 00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:47,289 molecular level and the evolution of 429 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:50,340 ribozymes or in the evolution of a 430 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:53,730 full-blown cell like mycobacterium of 431 00:25:01,080 --> 00:24:57,850 genitalia and of course complexity 432 00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:01,090 itself I love this slide my friends are 433 00:25:05,399 --> 00:25:02,950 embarrassed by how the simplest things 434 00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:05,409 in life amuse me I'm embarrassed by how 435 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:07,960 simple my friends off so I will let that 436 00:25:15,509 --> 00:25:12,369 be my song and dance for now and let 437 00:25:17,899 --> 00:25:15,519 Eric go and then we can have our special 438 00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:17,909 so thank you for your attention and 439 00:25:27,149 --> 00:25:24,549 thank you for joining the group today ok 440 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:27,159 thank you Frank um mike is transferring 441 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:29,580 the slides to a different a different 442 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:33,129 set first of all I wanted to thank Frank 443 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:35,350 and the authors of this document for 444 00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:38,110 inviting an extra layer of commentary I 445 00:25:44,489 --> 00:25:41,320 was not part of the original discussion 446 00:25:46,529 --> 00:25:44,499 group so unfortunately I missed out on 447 00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:46,539 what happened one of the things that 448 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,159 means is that the authors of course are 449 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:50,320 not to be blamed for any opinions 450 00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:54,850 expressed by me but in some sense having 451 00:26:00,570 --> 00:25:57,720 been an outsider and seen the document 452 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:00,580 there's a lot of depth and as I recall 453 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:05,080 the original motivation of doing this 454 00:26:09,779 --> 00:26:08,320 sort of massively open solicitation was 455 00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:09,789 to make sure that the road mapping 456 00:26:13,889 --> 00:26:11,860 effort doesn't foreclose opportunities 457 00:26:15,899 --> 00:26:13,899 that we will later wish to support as 458 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:15,909 people come in with ideas that we don't 459 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:19,090 recognize now so I wanted to offer a 460 00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:21,490 couple of points of view that explore 461 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:23,590 topics that are raised in the document 462 00:26:31,230 --> 00:26:25,330 with an eye toward keeping our options 463 00:26:34,169 --> 00:26:31,240 open um it's very common almost to the 464 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:34,179 point of being unnoticed that when 465 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:36,530 people talk about 466 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,530 life whether minimal or the essence of 467 00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:42,320 or anything like that they often refer 468 00:26:48,030 --> 00:26:44,750 to living things but I think here we 469 00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:48,040 have we have the option to leave open an 470 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:52,400 alternative point of view we could treat 471 00:26:56,770 --> 00:26:54,290 life as if it were characteristic that 472 00:27:00,340 --> 00:26:56,780 things take on whether their cells or 473 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:00,350 viruses or pre ons or whatever or we 474 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:04,010 could we could view the biosphere as a 475 00:27:09,550 --> 00:27:07,010 coordinated mosaic of forms of order 476 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:09,560 that have different origins of the in 477 00:27:12,820 --> 00:27:10,970 the earth and that have been brought 478 00:27:14,740 --> 00:27:12,830 into coordination with each other and 479 00:27:16,060 --> 00:27:14,750 some of these are carried as properties 480 00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:16,070 of things others are carried as 481 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:19,100 properties of relations but when we do 482 00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:22,310 that it gives us the question whether we 483 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:23,630 shouldn't be thinking about either 484 00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:26,090 building up to model artificial cells or 485 00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:29,030 stripping down modern cells to arrive at 486 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:32,000 small artificial cells but we could say 487 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:34,250 is the proper abstraction and need for 488 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:36,230 containment and what else should be 489 00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:39,130 considered within that abstraction 490 00:27:44,650 --> 00:27:42,200 certainly of william martin and michael 491 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:44,660 russell have argued for a mineral poor 492 00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:46,970 hosted origin of early biochemistry 493 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:49,670 going to avec dosa whose name lacks the 494 00:27:55,870 --> 00:27:52,250 umlauts with apologies made a strong 495 00:27:58,390 --> 00:27:55,880 case that many reactions in early organo 496 00:28:02,020 --> 00:27:58,400 synthesis are easy on sir easier on 497 00:28:04,330 --> 00:28:02,030 surfaces than they are in bulks and so 498 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:04,340 the question becomes should we be 499 00:28:08,980 --> 00:28:05,930 looking for containment but not 500 00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:08,990 necessarily cells we know in the world 501 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:11,360 today that many cellular communities 502 00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:14,090 exist in the context of biofilms which 503 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:16,910 are manufactured secreted matrices that 504 00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:18,770 have consequences for differential 505 00:28:24,670 --> 00:28:21,590 diffusion rates of for changes in 506 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:24,680 material properties where reactions can 507 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:28,280 be carried out should given that many 508 00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:30,110 things were exchangeable genes were 509 00:28:34,420 --> 00:28:32,390 exchangeable early if genomes were 510 00:28:36,430 --> 00:28:34,430 incomplete perhaps metabolites were 511 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:36,440 exchangeable early should we consider 512 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:38,690 the possibility that a biofilm light 513 00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:41,210 diffusion matrix played an important 514 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:42,800 role even when cells were in a very 515 00:28:48,610 --> 00:28:45,770 incomplete stage so that perhaps the 516 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:48,620 cell is not the only important early 517 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:49,850 form 518 00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:52,770 John McCaskill in presentations over the 519 00:28:57,230 --> 00:28:54,809 years as part of the program for 520 00:28:59,779 --> 00:28:57,240 artificial cellular resolution that we 521 00:29:02,419 --> 00:28:59,789 hosted I guess in Venice for its 522 00:29:04,970 --> 00:29:02,429 duration was working on the problem of 523 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:04,980 microfluidic devices as a kind of 524 00:29:08,270 --> 00:29:06,690 external scaffolding that would allow 525 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:08,280 you to separate the problems of 526 00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:10,770 coordination on the way toward making a 527 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:13,500 protocell one can ask if the goal of 528 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:15,330 microfluidics were not to lead to a 529 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:17,850 protocell but to model other relevant 530 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:19,770 forms of containment what would a 531 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:23,010 natural way be to organize that kind of 532 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:25,049 experiment so it remains within the 533 00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:28,710 experimental motivation of this paper 534 00:29:35,810 --> 00:29:31,289 but it may not presume the role of cells 535 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:35,820 so much Frank set up a point that i'm 536 00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:39,210 very happy to sort of add some 537 00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:42,840 enthusiasm for life is many things it's 538 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:44,760 many structures and many relations and 539 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:47,130 many kinds of organization when we think 540 00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:49,710 about minimality there certainly is no 541 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:51,809 reason to think that all things are 542 00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:53,730 minimized together and the minimization 543 00:29:58,279 --> 00:29:55,710 of one may force maximization of others 544 00:30:00,649 --> 00:29:58,289 the national science foundation hosted a 545 00:30:02,779 --> 00:30:00,659 meeting on minimal life maybe three or 546 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:02,789 four years ago under a pristine black 547 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:06,690 oil which was directed to the question 548 00:30:11,779 --> 00:30:09,630 is there a horizon of minimality so that 549 00:30:13,789 --> 00:30:11,789 you can't get smaller in one dimension 550 00:30:16,899 --> 00:30:13,799 without necessarily becoming more 551 00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:16,909 complicated in another again i emphasize 552 00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:19,919 minimal life may not mean minimal living 553 00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:22,409 thing if things are not the right level 554 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:24,360 to focus on are we concerned with 555 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:26,490 minimality of genomes as structures from 556 00:30:31,159 --> 00:30:29,130 memory and control are we concerned with 557 00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:31,169 the minimal dependence on the ecosystem 558 00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,000 the minimal complexity that the 559 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:35,520 ecosystem itself has to have are we 560 00:30:39,409 --> 00:30:36,750 concerned with the minimal 561 00:30:41,659 --> 00:30:39,419 self-sufficient biochemistry and under 562 00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:41,669 what conditions fluctuating protected 563 00:30:49,159 --> 00:30:44,940 hot saline etc and these are questions 564 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:49,169 that can be partly done in the purview 565 00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:51,690 of synthetic biology but they also drift 566 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:53,880 over into synthetic organic chemistry 567 00:31:00,260 --> 00:30:56,250 and so perhaps that's an area that's an 568 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:00,270 interface with other position papers not 569 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:02,070 as central in this one but important to 570 00:31:06,260 --> 00:31:02,970 keep 571 00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:06,270 um the question of the order of steps is 572 00:31:11,779 --> 00:31:09,840 a deep and really hard one molecular 573 00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,789 replication is important now but it's a 574 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:13,440 system property compartments are 575 00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:15,809 important and they also involve many 576 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:18,419 levels of system segregation phase 577 00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,970 separation containment topologies active 578 00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:23,039 transport bioenergetics and so forth 579 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:25,830 when we think about the order in which 580 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:28,650 things came online in early life what's 581 00:31:32,270 --> 00:31:30,330 the relation between the advent of 582 00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:32,280 replication and the advent of 583 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:34,260 compartments what kinds of compartments 584 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:37,850 minerals porous surfaces vesicles 585 00:31:41,779 --> 00:31:40,530 compose ohms have been proposed by Doran 586 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:41,789 land set and daniel said grain 587 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:44,490 collaborators how many distinct 588 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:46,530 compartments is a cell even how many 589 00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,110 distinct compartmentalization roles does 590 00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,080 it perform in bioenergetics in catalysis 591 00:31:58,299 --> 00:31:54,960 in the separation of reaction domain in 592 00:32:01,490 --> 00:31:58,309 el mio stasis when we think about 593 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:01,500 molecular replication what exactly do we 594 00:32:06,289 --> 00:32:03,690 have in mind for molecular replication 595 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,299 it's a system-level feature today that 596 00:32:11,659 --> 00:32:08,880 involves at the minimum RNA and proteins 597 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:11,669 but its many types of RNA and protein 598 00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:16,289 asia's of highly evolved molecules that 599 00:32:22,390 --> 00:32:18,150 brings to what I think should be the 600 00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:22,400 next slide which is that the problem of 601 00:32:27,289 --> 00:32:24,990 understanding how ribosomal II mediated 602 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:27,299 translation relates to the rest of life 603 00:32:31,820 --> 00:32:30,090 is just enormously hard and there are 604 00:32:33,649 --> 00:32:31,830 other papers and other investigators in 605 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:33,659 this meeting who are dedicated to that 606 00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,150 particular problem but it strikes me as 607 00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:37,919 one of the most difficult and enigmatic 608 00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:40,830 major transitions to see through harder 609 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:42,870 in some ways than biochemistry harder in 610 00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:45,390 some ways in cellular ization because 611 00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:47,940 it's an assembly of so many tuned 612 00:32:52,850 --> 00:32:51,240 components into a system so one of the 613 00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:52,860 questions of minimality that seems 614 00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,500 pressing to me is how many qualitatively 615 00:33:00,740 --> 00:32:58,080 distinct stages in molecular replication 616 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:00,750 go through to arrive at the ribosome and 617 00:33:06,289 --> 00:33:03,690 can we in any way reconstruct what those 618 00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:06,299 must have been if there were many levels 619 00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:09,350 of ribosomal or of pre ribosomal 620 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:12,720 molecular system replication which one's 621 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:15,650 of those may have been prior to or 622 00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:18,730 posterior to one or another form of 623 00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:21,350 compartmentalization so these are sort 624 00:33:27,610 --> 00:33:25,190 of attempts to unpack details of sub 625 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:27,620 questions that seem to me to be resident 626 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:29,810 in this document and I think that's all 627 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:33,590 that I had to say I'm very happy on to 628 00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:43,010 open to the discussion and you might be 629 00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:49,870 muted find out one again let's see um 630 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:54,470 thank you to both of you so I think at 631 00:34:01,480 --> 00:33:56,810 this point we can just open our our 632 00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:01,490 phone lines up ally I can see that you 633 00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:05,270 had comments or questions so go right 634 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:11,720 ahead yes we can yeah okay Sakura from 635 00:34:16,770 --> 00:34:13,490 Frank right yeah it applies of you 636 00:34:22,990 --> 00:34:16,780 mention any dimension synthesis and 637 00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:23,000 basically i'm looking at here reductive 638 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:25,700 approach obviously you refer to the 639 00:34:30,490 --> 00:34:28,159 lodging and synthetic biology but also 640 00:34:33,460 --> 00:34:30,500 what is important here from point of the 641 00:34:35,950 --> 00:34:33,470 chemistry is we've using the facing 642 00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:35,960 element if you look at my illogical 643 00:34:41,919 --> 00:34:39,350 tentative a protein Ali started her up 644 00:34:46,540 --> 00:34:41,929 but it's hard to hear you can you either 645 00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:46,550 speak up or move closer I just 646 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:48,350 disconnected in my head suppose really 647 00:34:56,130 --> 00:34:52,850 know that's that's better very ok Frank 648 00:34:59,230 --> 00:34:56,140 in the title here can you hear me yes 649 00:35:01,420 --> 00:34:59,240 projects great there's indication of 650 00:35:03,970 --> 00:35:01,430 synthetic ten reductive approaches 651 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:03,980 obviously referred to phylogeny and 652 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:06,530 synthetic biology but one of the point 653 00:35:11,740 --> 00:35:09,770 I'm trying to refer to is a reducing 654 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:11,750 capacity of elements for example in 655 00:35:17,140 --> 00:35:15,290 biological tissues in entities we are 656 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:17,150 dealing with nitrogen I was just 657 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:19,490 discussing with a mirror yesterday is 658 00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:21,650 from New Zealand and if you look at 659 00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:23,630 except the fertilizers and for example 660 00:35:29,350 --> 00:35:26,900 explosives we have a reducing element 661 00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:29,360 that is basically is 662 00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:31,670 the entity of life so having that 663 00:35:36,970 --> 00:35:33,920 reduced in capacity of elements can be 664 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:36,980 basically a very important element in 665 00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:39,890 initiation of life also carbon other 666 00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:41,630 side for example in for the synthesis 667 00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:43,940 carbon is going to be reduced it's going 668 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:46,640 to transfer from co tube during process 669 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:49,610 to example glucose and koi Bible so 670 00:35:54,460 --> 00:35:52,210 these are basically elements that has 671 00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:54,470 reductive capacity not component of 672 00:36:03,250 --> 00:35:56,710 biology but also from point of chemistry 673 00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:03,260 what is a perspecto that Frank I think 674 00:36:13,780 --> 00:36:09,470 you muted just try and only so fun I'm 675 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:13,790 sorry but I did not understand I did not 676 00:36:20,110 --> 00:36:16,310 understand there was a commentary from 677 00:36:22,660 --> 00:36:20,120 Ali about reductive chemistry but then 678 00:36:25,060 --> 00:36:22,670 it faded off there at the very end so I 679 00:36:28,350 --> 00:36:25,070 hate to make this a cumbersome process 680 00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:28,360 but could you please repeat the question 681 00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:32,300 Frank basically you mentioned it type of 682 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:35,390 mentioned about phylogeny and synthetic 683 00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:39,850 biology based on synthesis and reductive 684 00:36:45,970 --> 00:36:43,760 process but this reductive process just 685 00:36:48,460 --> 00:36:45,980 ignites something in my mind which is 686 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:48,470 basically reducing capacity of elements 687 00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:51,050 for example nitrogen as extensive 688 00:36:56,530 --> 00:36:53,750 reducing capacity and if you look at 689 00:36:58,990 --> 00:36:56,540 tissues biological entity nitrogen 690 00:37:01,420 --> 00:36:59,000 extensively involved in these tissues 691 00:37:04,930 --> 00:37:01,430 and these entities and are introduced 692 00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,940 for except the synthetic for example 693 00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:07,280 chemicals like a fertilizers or example 694 00:37:12,130 --> 00:37:09,950 explosive it use nitrogen the rest of 695 00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:12,140 the nitrogen planet would be in a form 696 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:14,780 of reduced form so having nitrogen as 697 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:17,090 one of the essential elements of life 698 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:25,010 can be important yes absolutely I agree 699 00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:30,710 actually your case your point I think 700 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:34,340 that most and Eric maybe you can correct 701 00:37:40,030 --> 00:37:37,490 me if I'm wrong here and Ollie as well I 702 00:37:43,059 --> 00:37:40,040 think most people involved in in 703 00:37:43,059 --> 00:37:43,069 synthetic biology 704 00:37:55,539 --> 00:37:50,219 are really they're thinking mainly about 705 00:37:59,289 --> 00:37:55,549 aerobic processes so there there are a 706 00:38:06,279 --> 00:37:59,299 number of assumptions that are built 707 00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:06,289 into these studies so they've ever been 708 00:38:11,229 --> 00:38:08,420 at least in their current form they're 709 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:11,239 not starting from the ground up that is 710 00:38:19,689 --> 00:38:15,529 to say with you no consideration you 711 00:38:24,219 --> 00:38:19,699 know the reductive capacity of the 712 00:38:26,410 --> 00:38:24,229 atmosphere and the principal elements 713 00:38:31,479 --> 00:38:26,420 are the forms of those elements that 714 00:38:34,259 --> 00:38:31,489 were available for you know quasi 715 00:38:38,380 --> 00:38:34,269 biological transformations you know for 716 00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:38,390 say 4.1 billion years ago am I getting 717 00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:42,680 your point correct yes thank you and I 718 00:38:48,209 --> 00:38:44,390 have cutter common to which is I think 719 00:38:51,219 --> 00:38:48,219 it's important in your slide you have a 720 00:38:55,479 --> 00:38:51,229 basically bacteriophage which is virus 721 00:38:59,199 --> 00:38:55,489 and also there's indication in section 9 722 00:39:00,939 --> 00:38:59,209 of the sub questions endosymbionts 723 00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:00,949 endosymbionts obviously they need host 724 00:39:06,309 --> 00:39:03,680 but what is interesting so far and I 725 00:39:08,620 --> 00:39:06,319 follow up these basically discussions I 726 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:08,630 haven't seen the view of neurologists 727 00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:10,609 but we have mostly biologists and 728 00:39:14,529 --> 00:39:12,049 basically molecular biologists and 729 00:39:17,890 --> 00:39:14,539 chemists I think having involved the 730 00:39:20,229 --> 00:39:17,900 viruses as the entity which can be a 731 00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:20,239 question of canisius initiation of life 732 00:39:27,870 --> 00:39:26,150 can be very important not only but not 733 00:39:30,249 --> 00:39:27,880 necessarily they need to host we have a 734 00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:30,259 theory right now hypothesis is called 735 00:39:37,089 --> 00:39:33,920 virus first hypothesis and basically 736 00:39:40,089 --> 00:39:37,099 this indicates that viruses can be 737 00:39:42,219 --> 00:39:40,099 basically as the element of 738 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:42,229 self-replicating can be initiation of 739 00:39:47,319 --> 00:39:44,930 life and then they find a hose and 740 00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:47,329 develop their structures so wires as 741 00:39:57,459 --> 00:39:51,049 entity can be important element in study 742 00:40:04,549 --> 00:40:02,209 equal a coin and you know can it please 743 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:04,559 someone jump in and correct my 744 00:40:10,729 --> 00:40:08,249 scientific ignorance but hasn't been 745 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:10,739 recently been discovered viruses of 746 00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:15,049 viruses is my hallucination here Holly 747 00:40:23,150 --> 00:40:18,319 there are two hypothesis right now about 748 00:40:24,739 --> 00:40:23,160 basically development of viruses one of 749 00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:24,749 them is a regression one of them is 750 00:40:29,569 --> 00:40:26,880 progressive Progressive is referring to 751 00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:29,579 example like it for example retro wires 752 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:32,519 that RNA is going to transfer to DNA and 753 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:35,609 so on migrate to nucleus and the host 754 00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:37,170 cells other one is a regressive 755 00:40:43,759 --> 00:40:41,609 hypothesis that basically these to 756 00:40:46,429 --> 00:40:43,769 indicate that the viruses they need the 757 00:40:48,799 --> 00:40:46,439 host but also we have a theory 758 00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:48,809 hypothesis called first virus first 759 00:40:54,609 --> 00:40:51,660 hypothesis that they can basically they 760 00:40:57,739 --> 00:40:54,619 can be initiated and they basically 761 00:41:11,390 --> 00:40:57,749 assembled initially and then they find 762 00:41:14,299 --> 00:41:11,400 their host I can't hear it Frank so that 763 00:41:16,249 --> 00:41:14,309 there was in fact yes we're talking 764 00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:16,259 about a virus finding a host but there 765 00:41:24,049 --> 00:41:21,390 was a it was a French group that found 766 00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:24,059 this is coming back that published a 767 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:27,599 paper in Nature the three or four years 768 00:41:37,789 --> 00:41:34,890 ago basically a satellite virus which is 769 00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:37,799 in fact itself of erath age so this is 770 00:41:45,289 --> 00:41:42,089 something that I know that the put it 771 00:41:48,759 --> 00:41:45,299 but it itself is parasitizing requires a 772 00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:48,769 host but nevertheless you know the 773 00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:52,079 discovery that the trash kadhal can sort 774 00:41:58,939 --> 00:41:54,569 of be pushed back to viruses and viruses 775 00:42:02,179 --> 00:41:58,949 I think is that you it certainly puts 776 00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:02,189 some points up on the board for a virus 777 00:42:07,759 --> 00:42:05,160 first view of the evolution of line so 778 00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:07,769 it's excellent comments that really 779 00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:09,270 should be in 780 00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:14,310 operated into the the final document on 781 00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:24,390 the simplest life okay other thoughts or 782 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:28,950 questions that anyone wants to raise or 783 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:32,250 that could help the author team who will 784 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:33,690 not easily be able to watch this video 785 00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:35,970 as well because all of them by aliens 786 00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:37,980 are represented here anything else that 787 00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:55,280 this is Bob Brunner can you hear me yes 788 00:43:02,390 --> 00:42:58,770 we can go ahead both I brought up some 789 00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:02,400 points early in the discussion I'd like 790 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:05,700 to cover those if that's all right yes 791 00:43:14,140 --> 00:43:08,970 please got now the first thing I brought 792 00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:14,150 up was these uh biofilms which Bob Hazen 793 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:19,520 called flat life and he just wrote a 794 00:43:34,310 --> 00:43:27,770 paper that came out last month and is 795 00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:34,320 the title is the Paleo mineralogy of the 796 00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:38,390 Hadean Eon a preliminary species list 797 00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:44,670 now in his body of his paper he talks 798 00:43:52,510 --> 00:43:48,660 about the diverse roles of mineral 799 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:52,520 surfaces in protecting selecting 800 00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:55,350 concentrating templating and catalyzing 801 00:44:05,180 --> 00:43:59,670 reactions of prebiotic organic molecules 802 00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:05,190 and so I don't know if the term flat 803 00:44:12,620 --> 00:44:09,000 life is still being used but anyway that 804 00:44:17,290 --> 00:44:12,630 gets into some of the stuff of Gunther 805 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:17,300 Bach der Hauser and Martin and so forth 806 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:20,890 concerning these biofilms 807 00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:27,110 now i am going to the gordon conference 808 00:44:36,220 --> 00:44:30,710 next month and i have selected some 809 00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:36,230 minerals to take as an exhibit i'm i'm a 810 00:44:45,390 --> 00:44:38,150 volunteer at the Denver Museum of Nature 811 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:45,400 and Science and I decided to pick 812 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:49,970 minerals that are the most discussed in 813 00:44:57,210 --> 00:44:54,410 the common origin of life theories so 814 00:45:01,780 --> 00:44:57,220 for instance the first five I list on my 815 00:45:04,810 --> 00:45:01,790 comment there pyrite chalcopyrite sarah 816 00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:04,820 light Galena and ala bandai Torf really 817 00:45:13,330 --> 00:45:11,390 from armin malka janian a famous origin 818 00:45:20,410 --> 00:45:13,340 of life theorists and of course the 819 00:45:21,790 --> 00:45:20,420 pyrite is also from Ferris at rpi so you 820 00:45:26,350 --> 00:45:21,800 sort of kill two birds with one stone 821 00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:26,360 there they also are part of Gunther Bach 822 00:45:35,350 --> 00:45:32,900 ders Hauser theory then we have Steve 823 00:45:39,310 --> 00:45:35,360 Benner who came up with the theory that 824 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:39,320 life could not have started on the earth 825 00:45:46,330 --> 00:45:42,050 because we were lacking some critical 826 00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:46,340 borates and molybdate and the only way 827 00:45:52,270 --> 00:45:48,110 those could have been created was on the 828 00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:52,280 planet Mars so it's interesting that in 829 00:46:02,680 --> 00:45:57,280 the list of the Hadean era mineral that 830 00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:02,690 Bob Hazen put forward there's 420 on the 831 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:05,510 list and the three that Benner is 832 00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:10,370 talking about are not on that list then 833 00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:15,460 we have that those those are tourmaline 834 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:18,020 peridot and coma night wolf a night and 835 00:46:24,730 --> 00:46:20,450 then of course we have Mike Russell at 836 00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:24,740 NASA who is talking about olivene say 837 00:46:32,890 --> 00:46:26,510 light force right and montmorillonite 838 00:46:33,220 --> 00:46:32,900 I'm sorry serpentine in that process and 839 00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:33,230 there's 840 00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:35,260 any other scientists that talk about the 841 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:40,609 serpentine process then we have the Mars 842 00:46:45,570 --> 00:46:42,650 people are talking about what's at the 843 00:46:51,550 --> 00:46:45,580 bottom of Mount sharp montmorillonite 844 00:46:53,590 --> 00:46:51,560 some paroxetine and hazen suggested am 845 00:46:56,380 --> 00:46:53,600 feeble would be another one in that 846 00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:56,390 series and then there's course the proof 847 00:47:04,330 --> 00:46:59,410 of water on Mars which is the gypsum and 848 00:47:07,570 --> 00:47:04,340 good tight and then there's the dating 849 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:07,580 minerals ER cons and appetites it moises 850 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:11,090 uses in his work so there's not that 851 00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:15,770 many the minerals that somebody could 852 00:47:24,030 --> 00:47:19,040 take and make a study of the properties 853 00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:24,040 of those minerals in creating biofilms 854 00:47:31,950 --> 00:47:28,760 you know that the theory is that the and 855 00:47:36,849 --> 00:47:31,960 you know you can read doctors hauser or 856 00:47:39,609 --> 00:47:36,859 milk oj nian about how the and also 857 00:47:42,580 --> 00:47:39,619 Russell about how the these some 858 00:47:45,490 --> 00:47:42,590 minerals they trade protons and 859 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:45,500 electrons back and forth with the 860 00:47:53,230 --> 00:47:49,730 organic molecules making them larger and 861 00:47:55,870 --> 00:47:53,240 larger and forming into possible life so 862 00:47:57,790 --> 00:47:55,880 those are the two points I wanted to 863 00:48:04,720 --> 00:47:57,800 make and I'd love to hear some comments 864 00:48:07,390 --> 00:48:04,730 from some of you folks I bought this is 865 00:48:10,780 --> 00:48:07,400 Eric thank you also for some emails that 866 00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:10,790 you sent to me and George Cody long ago 867 00:48:19,210 --> 00:48:15,040 sort of at the beginning of this process 868 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:19,220 yeah it would be wonderful if there were 869 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:20,810 more people working on this it would be 870 00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:24,010 wonderful if there were a thicker 871 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:26,140 representation of the expertise of 872 00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:29,210 geologists both ad and earth geologists 873 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:31,790 and also planetary scientists who can 874 00:48:39,820 --> 00:48:34,690 say a good bit in detail about other 875 00:48:41,859 --> 00:48:39,830 environments in this area you know my 876 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:41,869 hope is that with mary ann michael's 877 00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:43,850 having structured the process as they 878 00:48:46,980 --> 00:48:44,230 have 879 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:46,990 there's been ample room for that voice 880 00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:49,570 to be present here so that if then 881 00:48:56,730 --> 00:48:53,550 people come offering to do work on 882 00:48:58,650 --> 00:48:56,740 mineral organo synthesis there will be 883 00:49:00,480 --> 00:48:58,660 room in the NASA budget to support it 884 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:00,490 because a lot of it is just scanning 885 00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:03,970 parameter space you know in addition to 886 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:07,119 the mineral environment we have to we 887 00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,010 have sort of a parameter space of 888 00:49:14,670 --> 00:49:11,440 temperature pH ionic strength salinity 889 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:14,680 and then what you think the relevant 890 00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:16,810 inputs are do you have carbon monoxide 891 00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:19,030 do you have more active organics like 892 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:22,359 pyruvate this essentially requires 893 00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:26,130 manpower with a relatively sophisticated 894 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:29,640 organic geochemistry bent to design 895 00:49:33,390 --> 00:49:31,570 experiments that can survey this 896 00:49:34,650 --> 00:49:33,400 parameter space efficiently in areas 897 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:34,660 that are likely to turn up something 898 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:38,890 useful and so anything we can do to make 899 00:49:50,789 --> 00:49:41,050 room to support such programs if good 900 00:50:02,759 --> 00:49:55,919 I would concur i would add that you know 901 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:02,769 I when I was a postdoc I had the the the 902 00:50:11,759 --> 00:50:05,729 greatest honor and privilege of hearing 903 00:50:16,439 --> 00:50:11,769 grinter dr. Hauser at at MBL give one of 904 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:16,449 the evening lectures it was really this 905 00:50:21,209 --> 00:50:19,209 was a notorious to the end of his life 906 00:50:24,839 --> 00:50:21,219 it was a really quite a stunning 907 00:50:29,249 --> 00:50:24,849 presentation and although I don't do it 908 00:50:32,939 --> 00:50:29,259 anymore for some some of my research 909 00:50:35,759 --> 00:50:32,949 maybe seven or eight years ago dealt 910 00:50:38,929 --> 00:50:35,769 with iron and sulfate reducing bacteria 911 00:50:41,819 --> 00:50:38,939 if granted these are very complicated 912 00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:41,829 organisms I'm not even proposing that 913 00:50:48,749 --> 00:50:43,689 they are be considered in these sort of 914 00:50:51,479 --> 00:50:48,759 you know origin of origin of life 915 00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:51,489 experiments but near the list I've 916 00:50:58,769 --> 00:50:55,689 retained an affection for that and I 917 00:51:02,279 --> 00:50:58,779 would say that and Eric maybe you can 918 00:51:07,729 --> 00:51:02,289 give me a yay or nay on that I would say 919 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:07,739 that the there were perhaps not as many 920 00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:13,170 geologists or specifically geochemist a 921 00:51:20,459 --> 00:51:18,640 participating in the process as as as I 922 00:51:24,269 --> 00:51:20,469 might have liked to abstain is that 923 00:51:25,620 --> 00:51:24,279 would you agree or it up yeah I concur 924 00:51:27,989 --> 00:51:25,630 with that you know this is a strange 925 00:51:31,229 --> 00:51:27,999 thing in the community because it's 926 00:51:33,779 --> 00:51:31,239 clear that the expertise exists among 927 00:51:39,179 --> 00:51:33,789 people who are in this discussion and 928 00:51:42,299 --> 00:51:39,189 even many who were at Wallops um my 929 00:51:44,099 --> 00:51:42,309 personal take on this is that space 930 00:51:46,109 --> 00:51:44,109 means to be made to form communities 931 00:51:48,509 --> 00:51:46,119 which means giving a sufficient time 932 00:51:51,329 --> 00:51:48,519 horizon to encourage people to learn 933 00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:51,339 from each other because it's a long 934 00:51:56,699 --> 00:51:54,160 reach from the planetary science to find 935 00:51:59,069 --> 00:51:56,709 out what's geologically plausible so the 936 00:52:00,989 --> 00:51:59,079 mineralogical expertise to understand 937 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:00,999 what the electron and proton exchange 938 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:03,890 properties are of particular minerals in 939 00:52:09,789 --> 00:52:06,410 particular conditions to the organic 940 00:52:12,789 --> 00:52:09,799 chemistry to understand what relevant 941 00:52:14,829 --> 00:52:12,799 reaction classes are to search for two 942 00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:14,839 then computational chemistry problems 943 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:16,700 how can networks complete where can you 944 00:52:21,730 --> 00:52:20,450 get concentration and then to bring this 945 00:52:24,220 --> 00:52:21,740 together with the things that 946 00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:24,230 astrobiology people have often looked at 947 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:27,049 which is how do the end products of 948 00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,130 these synthetic systems provide a path 949 00:52:36,279 --> 00:52:33,680 into what we understand as life and its 950 00:52:38,109 --> 00:52:36,289 dynamics today but this is an 951 00:52:41,049 --> 00:52:38,119 extraordinarily long intellectual reach 952 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:41,059 for any expert in any domain to engage 953 00:52:46,299 --> 00:52:42,890 well with the people on the other 954 00:52:48,220 --> 00:52:46,309 domains so I don't know I don't know 955 00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:48,230 what one can do you work on it privately 956 00:52:52,269 --> 00:52:49,760 to try to build community where you can 957 00:52:54,839 --> 00:52:52,279 and then you cheerlead from the sides to 958 00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,849 hope that organizations like NASA will 959 00:53:05,859 --> 00:52:56,960 institutionally encourage making these 960 00:53:12,779 --> 00:53:05,869 collaborations sticker that's I mean 961 00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:12,789 what what funds biogeochemistry work is 962 00:53:19,870 --> 00:53:17,180 whether it's in SF but also BOE and boe 963 00:53:26,279 --> 00:53:19,880 in particular interested they be 964 00:53:30,789 --> 00:53:26,289 contaminating of of aqueous phase 965 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:30,799 radionuclides and also dealing with 966 00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:33,410 things like you know of arsenic toxicity 967 00:53:38,620 --> 00:53:35,569 in the waters and so there's a there's 968 00:53:41,289 --> 00:53:38,630 been define its chunk of money that's 969 00:53:44,769 --> 00:53:41,299 gone to the biogeochemistry community 970 00:53:46,809 --> 00:53:44,779 over the last you know 20 years ago that 971 00:53:51,099 --> 00:53:46,819 has supported a lot of wonderful basic 972 00:53:55,329 --> 00:53:51,109 research but it's really been you know 973 00:53:57,579 --> 00:53:55,339 the actual I say that the aim of most of 974 00:54:00,430 --> 00:53:57,589 this research has not been you know sort 975 00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:00,440 of open-ended what what are the variety 976 00:54:07,630 --> 00:54:04,190 of geochemistry that could you know 977 00:54:11,049 --> 00:54:07,640 provide a scaffold for protocells and 978 00:54:14,759 --> 00:54:11,059 for primitive energy transformations but 979 00:54:17,050 --> 00:54:14,769 rather how do we better understand 980 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:17,060 ex-staff organisms and they 981 00:54:24,250 --> 00:54:20,450 interactions with these minerals with 982 00:54:26,530 --> 00:54:24,260 view towards uh you know the pushing 983 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:26,540 aqueous phase of metal concentrations 984 00:54:32,260 --> 00:54:30,290 one way or done yes this is a thing that 985 00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,270 came up to some degree within the 986 00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:34,400 wallops conversation so perhaps it's 987 00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:37,040 useful in this webinar to sort of have 988 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:38,960 it available in the record so people can 989 00:54:44,410 --> 00:54:41,450 know it happened there's still a lot 990 00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:44,420 that is not understood about states of 991 00:54:52,180 --> 00:54:49,280 carbon in the Earth's mantle and crust 992 00:54:53,530 --> 00:54:52,190 and in the sub crossville water systems 993 00:54:57,100 --> 00:54:53,540 there are some things that are 994 00:54:59,850 --> 00:54:57,110 understood but in geophysics the experts 995 00:55:02,590 --> 00:54:59,860 are far from having a full synthesis 996 00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:02,600 there is basic science to be done there 997 00:55:08,110 --> 00:55:04,910 that's of interest to the geophysicist 998 00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:08,120 and geochemist perhaps this is an 999 00:55:12,670 --> 00:55:10,730 opportunity for astrobiology to sort of 1000 00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:12,680 advertise itself as a source of basic 1001 00:55:23,710 --> 00:55:15,470 science and geochemistry and planetary 1002 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:23,720 science the combined resources okay we 1003 00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:25,370 are just coming up to the top of the 1004 00:55:32,350 --> 00:55:29,120 hour unless there are any further 1005 00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:32,360 comments that people want to chip in I 1006 00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:36,910 would like to thank our presenters and 1007 00:55:43,810 --> 00:55:39,680 just to remind you that this video will 1008 00:55:47,470 --> 00:55:43,820 be up on the website shortly takes a day 1009 00:55:50,740 --> 00:55:47,480 or so to to crunch it so if you want to 1010 00:55:52,690 --> 00:55:50,750 refer any of your colleagues to it just 1011 00:55:55,630 --> 00:55:52,700 come back and have a look in the events 1012 00:55:57,250 --> 00:55:55,640 section on the website and you'll be 1013 00:56:01,840 --> 00:55:57,260 able to get the link directly to this 1014 00:56:04,690 --> 00:56:01,850 video and I see Frank has a point yeah 1015 00:56:09,310 --> 00:56:04,700 and I would encourage Valley and above 1016 00:56:12,550 --> 00:56:09,320 as Melissa and Paulie and a thief if he 1017 00:56:17,710 --> 00:56:12,560 wanted to write directly your comments 1018 00:56:23,020 --> 00:56:17,720 to Eric or myself hi I'm Frank Rosen 1019 00:56:26,370 --> 00:56:23,030 swagg at you montana edu and I would be 1020 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:26,380 very keen on communicating those 1021 00:56:30,820 --> 00:56:30,050 comments of your collective thoughts to 1022 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:30,830 the groups 1023 00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:34,730 that when the meetings and occur to sort 1024 00:56:42,490 --> 00:56:39,710 of refine this this question that your 1025 00:56:45,730 --> 00:56:42,500 opinions will be taken into account and 1026 00:56:48,550 --> 00:56:45,740 just to build on that if your comments 1027 00:56:50,590 --> 00:56:48,560 relate directly to the paper and I can 1028 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:50,600 see that poorly is saying they will it 1029 00:56:56,020 --> 00:56:53,570 has as well early um the paper is now 1030 00:56:58,060 --> 00:56:56,030 open for commenting so if you have 1031 00:56:59,890 --> 00:56:58,070 general discussions that you want to 1032 00:57:02,130 --> 00:56:59,900 make with I can Frank that's one thing 1033 00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:02,140 but if you can help the team by 1034 00:57:06,850 --> 00:57:04,880 commenting directly in the paper it's a 1035 00:57:09,490 --> 00:57:06,860 very simple process you go to the paper 1036 00:57:11,770 --> 00:57:09,500 we ask you ideally to log into your 1037 00:57:13,450 --> 00:57:11,780 Google account first so that we know who 1038 00:57:15,490 --> 00:57:13,460 you are when you add the comment because 1039 00:57:18,820 --> 00:57:15,500 it makes it easier if people want to 1040 00:57:20,530 --> 00:57:18,830 come back to you for clarification then 1041 00:57:23,260 --> 00:57:20,540 that's a great thing to do as well we 1042 00:57:26,260 --> 00:57:23,270 need to get as much input for the papers 1043 00:57:29,770 --> 00:57:26,270 as we can so that they can move on to 1044 00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:29,780 the next stage with that I think we are 1045 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:32,720 now out of time so thank you to our 1046 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:34,930 presenters and you to our attendees and 1047 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:39,290 our next event is going to be in the new 1048 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:43,370 year I think it's the eighth but all the 1049 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:45,650 details will be on the website and they 1050 00:57:51,460 --> 00:57:47,810 will go out in Agra gether and please